Getting sound from the shoot to the computer

[FadedNumber]

I've seen one or two other threads with this same sort of question. But mine goes further.

If I got a good mic and windshield and all that mess out of the way, I'd be set, right? Ah, but my little DV camcorder doesn't have a jack to plug Mics into. How unfortunate. So, what could I record onto that I could hook up to my computer and lay down on top of the video? Any help would be <u>greatly</u> appreciated.

[Kev Owens]

The standard sound recording device is a DAT recorder (Digital Audio Tape). This can be plugged directly into your computer to gather all your sound. (Always check your computer vs. the leads, outputs of the device).

Another option is a minidisc recorder. Tend to be more fidley (some models cut the sound into tracks automatically etc.) but the sound quality is good, and obviously it's digital therfore transfer to a computer is relatively easy. Be warned that most minidisc recorders have a bog-standard small mic jack, which isn't really up to the vigours of film-making, the optical input is the one to use.

What you should do now is specify exactly what mic you intend to get, then the guys on this forum can be more specific in helping you out.

[Kev Owens]

Ok, well, what you have pictured there first of all is a cheap standard uni-directional microphone, not really designed to record movie sound, it's designed to have your mouth right beside it for talking/singing.

The other picture is a DAT deck, I was meaning a portable DAT recorder for recording sound on the move...

It is always preferable not to use the on-board camera mic sound as you can hear the camera mechanics and you have no control on sound levels, but the quality will only be slightly improved if the external mic is rubbish.

I'd see what gear you can blag from friends/family and do some tests indoor and outdoor. Don't waste your own money buying equipment if all you want to do is experiment! Keep it cheap and you keep it fun! Good luck with it.

[FadedNumber]

Wowzers, Kev. I've seen you answering questions in every thread that I've looked at. "You da man", as it were.

Well, after watching Robert Rodriguez' 10 Minute Film School on the El Mariachi DVD, I was inspired to do everything as cheaply as possible, while retaining at least a little quality. Find a nice medium, y'know?

So I'm in this band, and we have normal old mic that you see those guys singing into. I was going to go the dirt-cheap way and wrap that cord around some sort of pole and plug that sucker into... An eight hundred (if I buy a cheap one) dollar DAT recorder? Snaps... I suppose I have a few options here:

1) Suck it up and use the built-in mic, cringing whilst I watch the movie I've made.
2) Suck it up and shell out the cash for a decent DAT recorder.
3) ... Um... I guess that was mostly it.

So, this microphone... You know, one of these:



Would be able to plug into your generic DAT recorder... say, one of these:



... Oh, I've got option three now! See if one of my two friends who are in college for music-related courses could borrow one. Or my other friend who's in college for filmmaking. Now that I think about it, my guitarist's dad is half-owner of a studio, and may just have something like this... Things are looking up. Thanks for the help, Kev.

[FadedNumber]

Ah. You meant something more like this, then?



I can dig it. And from some of the reading I've been doing, I should be looking into a ... "Shot...gun... Mic?" It's great when you have a vision, but only know a little bit about what you need to make your vision a reality.

I know nothing about mics. Or sound. I know how to write, I know how to shoot, and I know how to edit. Three important things, but all the little things I don't know how to do add up, y'know?

Anywho, thanks for setting me straight before I made a fool of myself. You're a hero.

[Littlerich]

Originally posted by FadedNumber:
Ah. You meant something more like this, then?

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, that is the exact DAT recorder we used for recording dialogue on location for my recently finished film, "Dead Stoned" and the sound on it was GORGEOUS!
It has XLR Inputs, which really help make a clean recording and to output to computer, it was connected via a mixer through a firewire to a MAC, and recorded using CUBase. It was a friends equipment, and we also went out to record some extra foley stuff (sound effects), such as stabbing an apple and stuff, and even that came out lovely! (apart from the fact it was very windy!)

I'd HIGHLY recommend using one of these decks to record sound spereatly from the camera and sync it up in post, it's more work, but DEFINATELY WORTH IT!

[robinofloxley]

Originally posted by FadedNumber:
And from some of the reading I've been doing, I should be looking into a ... "Shot...gun... Mic?"

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">We have a great book in the UK for this kind of advice. It?s called ?The Guerilla Film Makers Handbook?, and you can visit the authors? website here.

Most of the content is specific to the UK film industry, and although you don?t list your location FadedNumber, I?m kind of assuming you?re from the US? So this may not be for you.

However, the book has lots of good technical information for the sorts of questions you?re asking ? and I?m sure you must have something similar available where you are.

I?m kind of in your league ? just starting out, and the kind of equipment I?ve used so far has all used XLR cables (three pins in a round plug/socket). As mentioned above these are robust connections that will survive portable use and the many set-ups you?ll no doubt go through on your shoot. They?re also an industry standard and will tend to plug into any professional equipment you might come across.

XLR cables and quality mics are expensive. The advice in the above mentioned tome of knowledge is to hire sound equipment (or blag it). If you don?t have much money ? explain this to the hire company and try to negotiate a cheap rate (or at least some free days? hire on top of the ones you pay for).

The mic you?re using for your band is omni-directional ? which means it picks up anything and everything. One of the worst things that makes a no-budget movie seem unprofessional is background noise ? you want to try and cut that out! (Plus you won?t always be able to get the mic very close to the source)

So you?ll need a uni-directional, condenser mic (also known as hyper-cardioid), like the guys above suggest. Something like the Sennheiser MKH 416.

When you hire a mic ? you have to be very careful about your terminology. When I asked for a shot-gun mic recently, they tried to give me something two feet long! [img]eek.gif[/img] Basically, as the mic gets longer, it gets more accurate and can be used over longer distances.

My old course tutor listed the following types of directional mics:

shotgun ? fairly narrow cone of sensitivity spreading out from the tip of the mic

rifle ? narrow cone (use in noisy conditions / medium distances)

machine-gun ? pencil thin (only spies use these, and when I mentioned it to the hire company their heads fell off in laughter [img]redface.gif[/img] )

The hire company had a different idea though ? their definition of a shotgun was what I?ld call a rifle.

Anyway, most condenser mics are un-powered. If your mixing desk or recording device cannot supply phantom power [img]graemlins/bat.gif[/img] , then you?ll need portable, battery powered, in-line amplifiers (small pocket-sized devices you connect between the mic and the recorder). This also doubles the number of XLR cables you?ll need.

In terms of recorders it?s useful to have controls for recording level and pan, and some sort of visual meter for the recording level (e.g. VU meter). It?s essential that the recording level is set correctly at the source, because if you try and increase the gain during editing ? you?ll get a garbage sound track!

A mixing desk can be useful if you?re not too worried about portability, as this allows greater control over the sensitivity of the mics and filters to cut out unwanted noise.

Finally, as stated above, if you have enough crew for a separate camera and sound operator ? this is the best option. Feeding the sound directly into the camera creates a lot of work around the camera and will slow down set-ups ? plus you?ll have nobody to monitor the sound while recording.

Using a digital device such as a DAT or MiniDisc recorder is essential as they have a built-in function to ensure that playback occurs at exactly the same speed as the recording (essential for synchronising with the picture).

Plus ? don?t forget headphones for your sound operator (to listen out for all those mobile phones etc?)

Sorry about the brain-slug [img]graemlins/sleepy.gif[/img] ? I was just trying to be comprehensive! Maybe you could take small breaks between the paragraphs!

Too little? or too much? You decide!

Oh, P.S. ? most hire companies do not insure the equipment. If you break it ? you pay for it! But they should supply flight cases to keep them safe.

[FadedNumber]

Thanks for all the replies, and Robin, that was a much appreciated post.

Now then, I've been doing a bit of reading up, and while reading, I found a site that was comparing different mics. This is something that I found and it stuck out to me:

The Azden SGM-2X is a bargain hunters dream. It features decent sound and maximum versatility... I would not recommend the Azden with high sound level projects... but for average level interview and dialogue work, the SGM-2X tended to slightly exaggerate proximity effect, which has the end result of warming up thin-sounding voices, which can be a big plus for projects with "real people" who tend to not project their voices or have nasal or un-appealing voice qualities.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That one clocks in at about 220 USD online, and that's something that I'm willing to pay. After I get through college the first time, I am almost positive that I'll go back later for filmmaking. Even if I don't, this is one hobby that always sticks with me. Plus, the house where I will be living for the next six months will be rent free, and I'm living with three other friends, so I'll have quite an expansive budget when it comes to buying equipment for my movies.

Now, then, about that 1700 USD DAT recorder... [img]eek.gif[/img] Maybe I'll just rent or hope I can have one loaned to me.

[Alex]

Originally posted by Littlerich:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by FadedNumber:
Ah. You meant something more like this, then?

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It has XLR Inputs, which really help make a clean recording and to output to computer, it was connected via a mixer through a firewire to a MAC, and recorded using CUBase.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">hmmm, which icon should I use?

[Alex]

Originally posted by FadedNumber:
Wowzers, Kev. I've seen you answering questions in every thread that I've looked at. "You da man", as it were. Thanks for the help, Kev.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Who was it who suggested Kev as moderator a few months back? [img]wink.gif[/img]

But then Nigel is doing a fine job so what the heck.